Thanks Mike, I really appreciate the continued support.
I'll be honest, I was editing this one right up until the end and it might be the fact that I wrote it based on some source notes from so long ago that I was almost trying to remember what I felt - and that kept adjusting and changing. So it does feel like a mix of old and new, a mix of what I was thinking then and what I think now that I was thinking then... if you get me.
That particular verse, outlining the things I was seeing through the glass of the car window was straight from my notes that night and I think I was considering how the bridges would warp in a swirl around the drops of rain on the window - like a black hole on such a particularly dark and rainy night.
Fascinating process for this piece! A window into a moment of your own past, for your present self to grapple with and try to unify in some way.
Have you heard of the "fourth moment" concept from Buddhism? Quoting Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, "You have the past, present, and future, which are the three moments. Then you have something else taking place, which is called the fourth moment. The fourth moment is not a far-out or extraordinary experience as such. It is a state of experience that doesn’t even belong to now. It doesn’t belong to what might be, either. It belongs to a non-category—which provides another sense of category. Thus it is called the fourth moment."
I'm no Buddhist, but some of your work and your discussions remind me of ideas like this that I've heard about.
Every now and then, I have a brief experience in which I almost feel like I'm being present in my entire lifetime (or perhaps even beyond those bounds), all at once. Like "now" is in fact "eternity." Sometimes a particularly strong memory can trigger it, and I feel a brief sense of "Wow, I'm still the same me as I was back then!" Of course, in many senses, I am not that same me at all. (This whole consciousness business gets complex and paradoxical real fast, as I'd bet you agree.)
And finally, thanks for the insight into your process with respect to your notes. Do you find that your use of notes is a pretty consistent part of your artistic process? For me, I go through periods of heavy notebook use, and little-to-no use, and I think the poems I write in each case are different, though it's hard to describe exactly what the key differences might be.
Oh this is very very interesting I must read into this Fourth moment - I have never really heard of that before but I am definitely interested in it after reading your description and certain I may have stumbled on that sort of idea in my own writing. I am definitely very interested in exploring existence and time and their challenges... I'll check it out, thank you!
Regarding note taking etc. I always try to have a notebook into which I write and it tends to be largely a thereputic free flowing exercise where I write about and idea or a thought for a page or two. I definitely go through periods of heavy notebook use and then sometimes not touch it for months. I have found there is a direct relationship between my mood and how frequently I use my notebook so I try to keep it up to stop from getting to anxious or whatever... I also run a lot to manage that.
The pace of writing with a pen is slower so you end up really only capturing ideas as fast as you can write and sometimes there is a shape of a sentence that you think of but then lose before you capture it... which can be frustrating but this is the process and I kind of like the beauty of that - like painting a picture every stroke can make or break a likeness and this is the same with a pen. But after I have done this I can leave it down and my mind is clearer.
Later on then I will explore my notes when looking to write something on my laptop and sometimes I find some beauty in there which I can then refine and grow into something more publishable.
And then of course other times when I am on the laptop anyway I will just start typing and creating something from scratch without ever starting on a notebook. It really depends.
Oh, and if you'll indulge me a little, here's a short poem I wrote back in September, after learning about the concept and having an interesting meditation session. The piece doesn't really directly address the idea of the fourth moment, but perhaps something about what a "self" is in the short term and the long term.
Thanks for your remarks. I know I’m in great company when we both have a lot to say. It’s interesting that you bring up speed of writing, which is one concern I’ve had about using a pen to take notes. But your perspective makes me think, why not try it? I absolutely love trying out a wide variety of methods.
For the last few weeks I was recovering from surgery and doing well now. One thing you kindly indicated to me was that you might give me a few pointers in how I might use the Substack system.
I mentioned that I have been writing poetry for a while but looking forward to getting the views and feedback from interested others.
I hope this request is not a burden but I am the original luddite.
Hi Jim, I actually sent on an email directly to you following my original comment. It might have gotten lost in your inbox. I will check it on my end and reply to the email to try and make it more visible to you. If that doesn't work we can work something out another way!
This is everywhere indeed!
Gorgeous
Thanks, Jack. Hope you are well!
"The bridges warp to blackened holes,
As Sainte-Chapelle tears the sky in two."
Phew! Great stuff, David. Another beauty.
Thanks so much, Jeff! I really appreciate it.
Yes, *this* is everywhere! Not properly nameable or describable, is it? I also enjoyed “blackened holes.” Very interesting mix of vocabularies!
Thanks Mike, I really appreciate the continued support.
I'll be honest, I was editing this one right up until the end and it might be the fact that I wrote it based on some source notes from so long ago that I was almost trying to remember what I felt - and that kept adjusting and changing. So it does feel like a mix of old and new, a mix of what I was thinking then and what I think now that I was thinking then... if you get me.
That particular verse, outlining the things I was seeing through the glass of the car window was straight from my notes that night and I think I was considering how the bridges would warp in a swirl around the drops of rain on the window - like a black hole on such a particularly dark and rainy night.
Fascinating process for this piece! A window into a moment of your own past, for your present self to grapple with and try to unify in some way.
Have you heard of the "fourth moment" concept from Buddhism? Quoting Chögyam Trungpa Rinpoche, "You have the past, present, and future, which are the three moments. Then you have something else taking place, which is called the fourth moment. The fourth moment is not a far-out or extraordinary experience as such. It is a state of experience that doesn’t even belong to now. It doesn’t belong to what might be, either. It belongs to a non-category—which provides another sense of category. Thus it is called the fourth moment."
I'm no Buddhist, but some of your work and your discussions remind me of ideas like this that I've heard about.
Every now and then, I have a brief experience in which I almost feel like I'm being present in my entire lifetime (or perhaps even beyond those bounds), all at once. Like "now" is in fact "eternity." Sometimes a particularly strong memory can trigger it, and I feel a brief sense of "Wow, I'm still the same me as I was back then!" Of course, in many senses, I am not that same me at all. (This whole consciousness business gets complex and paradoxical real fast, as I'd bet you agree.)
And finally, thanks for the insight into your process with respect to your notes. Do you find that your use of notes is a pretty consistent part of your artistic process? For me, I go through periods of heavy notebook use, and little-to-no use, and I think the poems I write in each case are different, though it's hard to describe exactly what the key differences might be.
Oh this is very very interesting I must read into this Fourth moment - I have never really heard of that before but I am definitely interested in it after reading your description and certain I may have stumbled on that sort of idea in my own writing. I am definitely very interested in exploring existence and time and their challenges... I'll check it out, thank you!
Regarding note taking etc. I always try to have a notebook into which I write and it tends to be largely a thereputic free flowing exercise where I write about and idea or a thought for a page or two. I definitely go through periods of heavy notebook use and then sometimes not touch it for months. I have found there is a direct relationship between my mood and how frequently I use my notebook so I try to keep it up to stop from getting to anxious or whatever... I also run a lot to manage that.
The pace of writing with a pen is slower so you end up really only capturing ideas as fast as you can write and sometimes there is a shape of a sentence that you think of but then lose before you capture it... which can be frustrating but this is the process and I kind of like the beauty of that - like painting a picture every stroke can make or break a likeness and this is the same with a pen. But after I have done this I can leave it down and my mind is clearer.
Later on then I will explore my notes when looking to write something on my laptop and sometimes I find some beauty in there which I can then refine and grow into something more publishable.
And then of course other times when I am on the laptop anyway I will just start typing and creating something from scratch without ever starting on a notebook. It really depends.
Oh, and if you'll indulge me a little, here's a short poem I wrote back in September, after learning about the concept and having an interesting meditation session. The piece doesn't really directly address the idea of the fourth moment, but perhaps something about what a "self" is in the short term and the long term.
Fourth Moment
I breathe in the world
I breathe out my self
And realize
There is no line
Just a permeable membrane
A threadbare woven sail
That slowly
Disintegrates
Back into the wind again
Oh wow thanks for sharing that, what a great meditation in and of itself!
Thanks for your remarks. I know I’m in great company when we both have a lot to say. It’s interesting that you bring up speed of writing, which is one concern I’ve had about using a pen to take notes. But your perspective makes me think, why not try it? I absolutely love trying out a wide variety of methods.
Here’s the full article where I got that quote: https://www.lionsroar.com/beyond-present-past-and-future-is-the-fourth-moment/amp/
To be there, To see. And to be seen.
Seems we are all looking to be looked at 😅
Hi David,
Belated new year greetings.
For the last few weeks I was recovering from surgery and doing well now. One thing you kindly indicated to me was that you might give me a few pointers in how I might use the Substack system.
I mentioned that I have been writing poetry for a while but looking forward to getting the views and feedback from interested others.
I hope this request is not a burden but I am the original luddite.
Kindest regards
Jim Halley
I have just sent a reply to the original email so hopefully you will see it there now.
Hi Jim, I actually sent on an email directly to you following my original comment. It might have gotten lost in your inbox. I will check it on my end and reply to the email to try and make it more visible to you. If that doesn't work we can work something out another way!